Kyle Pearce: Welcome to the Canadian Wealth Secrets Podcast with Kyle Pierce, Matt Biggley, and John Orr.

Matt Biggley: Get ready to be taught as we share our successes and failures, encountered during our real life lessons learning how to build generational wealth from the ground up.

Jon Orr: Welcome, invested students, to another episode of the Canadian Wealth Secrets Podcast. Let's get to it.

Matt Biggley: We're going to be talking about some myths and worries about investing your money so you can feel comfortable about building your wealth, just like the rich do.

Kyle Pearce: Fantastic. I am excited to keep digging in here. Our last episode that we had, our first ever episode, was great. I felt energized, I felt excited leading into that recording. Not only was I excited to get this podcast off the ground and running, but then actually doing it and feeling the conversations emerging, the ideas, all of the unique perspectives that we get to bring to the table, is really awesome. So in this particular episode, we want to build off of some of those myths that we were describing. The things, the stories that maybe we tell ourselves or the interpretations that we get when we listen to parents and teachers. And again, we don't want to say it's all bad because I think it's teachers and parents that want to make sure that we're safe.
And actually the three of us, it worked out. We put ourselves in a position that is safe. And again, I'm super thankful that we're in that position. And I'm going to guess that if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably in a similar scenario where you're starting to think beyond just the safety of your day-to-day job or career or profession, whatever it is that you're doing. And you're going like, maybe there's a little more to this. So again, it's not a bad thing, but we're hoping that this particular podcast is going to help stretch your thinking a little further.
And guys, today's topic is something that I've got to say, firsthand, I definitely did this particular thing, which was getting that down payment together, buying a house, which I know maybe some people who are listening haven't bought a house. We've got an episode coming up for you if you have not bought a house yet, there's some strategies that maybe I might do differently if I was to do it all over again. But for those who have purchased a house, this idea that you want to put as much money towards paying down your mortgage each and every month, or maybe week, or biweekly, whatever your payments are, so that you can pay off your mortgage as fast as possible, that is a super safe thing to do. You're not a bad person for doing it. But we've got some thoughts on how maybe we might want to shift our thinking, right, guys?

Jon Orr: Yeah, and I think that makes sense. We're going to share some ideas for sure, but we're not saying it's a bad idea at all. Like Kyle, I know for me what was taught by my parents and what we do in school, it's like, "Hey, let's do the compound interest here to show you how fast, if you pay this much off now, how fast you can pay this loan off over time. And if we change it, if I pay a little bit more, how fast can I pay it off? And how much interest did I save? That was the math we did in school, to show kids how does paying this faster affect the amount of interest you pay over the lifetime of that loan? And it was mind blowing of how much interest you'd save by paying a little bit more every month or every year.
That makes sense. So it made sense for us to go, "Hey, I want to pay my mortgage off office as fast as possible so that I don't have this payment anymore." And that was for me, I can see the future down the line, and be like, okay, I'm going to pay it off over this chunk of time, and then I'm going to have this wad of cash every single month to do something else. And I'll be honest here, that big chunk of cash, I always had big visions for it, right? It was like, oh, I'm going to take that and I'm going to buy a fancier car.

Kyle Pearce: You're going to buy the new minivan.

Matt Biggley: Exactly.

Kyle Pearce: Yeah, yeah.

Matt Biggley: Go and go.

Jon Orr: Or I'm like, oh, I'll have enough money to put down over here. Or I'll have enough money to, oh, that'll be for this thing that I've always wanted to do. I always thought about spending that money, but the first thing to do was to let's pay down this thing as fast as possible, so that I have access to spend more money each month.

Matt Biggley: I think, John, it really resonates with me what you're saying. You guys are both math teachers, but I think the fundamental shift here for people is actually a mindset one, it's not a math equation. It's so interesting that you reminisce, maybe you've taught this yourself before in school. And I remember the moment where I was sitting with my wife in some real estate education seminars, and this struck me like a bolt of a lightning. To understand that there is such a thing as good debt, and that to actually pay out your mortgage is a fundamental misunderstanding that's been perpetuated time eternal. This is a bedrock foundational financial principle, and to realize that could be turned upside down, turned on its head, good debt almost sounds like an oxymoron. And I feel like this was one of those superpower moments where you're like, holy smokes. My mindset shifted fundamentally in that moment. And that will be one of those seminal moments in my wealth trajectory that will forever have changed. Learning that there is good debt, and then proceeding to understand how to use that good debt to build wealth.

Kyle Pearce: I love it. I love it. I want to go all the way back to, John, you had mentioned this idea of, "I've got this vision," and the way you were looking... People who are watching on YouTube right now, you saw, it was like, John, you were looking into the future and you were envisioning what you were going to do with all this extra money that you didn't pay on interest, but when was that going to happen, right? So it's like, sure, you're going to save this money on interest, and 10, 15, maybe 20 years from now you'd suddenly have maybe this extra money. And I would almost say that's a great move if there's nothing else that you could use that money for.
And that's what we're going to get into, and this is the part that Biggley's talking about. Matt, you're saying the good debt, bad debt thing is such a mindset shift. And if you don't, the thing we don't want you to do is to stop paying. You might be listening going like, whoa, and you're logging into your online banking and you're like, stop paying the extra money. But then if you're just going to let that extra money go into your bank account and spend it, that's not right either.

Jon Orr: That's what I was imagining.

Kyle Pearce: Right? Yeah, exactly. You're like, whoa, that would be nice to just have this extra money to spend on stuff.

Jon Orr: Exactly. It will make you feel like you had more wiggle room. I think that's like what people are like, oh, I don't have to set aside that much money anymore. If I have paid off my mortgage. It's just, oh, it gives me a lot more wiggle room. But what you're going to do when that wiggle room comes, you're just going to spend more. My lifestyle creep will come up, and I'll all of a sudden I'll have used up that amount, and it's now gone because now my expenses are higher.

Kyle Pearce: Exactly. And this is a tricky part here. So it's like you have to have a great or a full understanding. You almost have to have that epiphany, Matt, you had at that seminar, where you go, oh, this is what I'm going to do instead. Because if you don't have an instead, then Parkinson's law is going to take over. And Parkinson's law actually began as this idea that work expands to fill the time available for its completion, but you can actually apply this law to finances as well, and that your expenditures will actually rise to meet your income. So we don't want you to go turn off your extra mortgage payments, and then just let it ride and hope everything works out better. You need to have a plan for that money, and dig into that plan of where this money could go, or what you might do with it.
Let's talk about what happens when you do pay off your mortgage or continue to pay your mortgage off. And this is happening whether you're paying extra, or paying the minimum for your mortgage. What's happening is you're creating equity in your home, and fundamentally that is better than losing equity or not gaining equity, but it becomes dead equity. So if you imagine this, imagine you're in the world, and here in Canada this isn't a thing anymore. But it used to be a thing, especially in the US, where you could literally borrow 100% of the value of a property, and you own basically none of that property, and you just start making these payments. And then each payment, a little bit of equity is being built. A little bit of that principle is being paid down and you own more and more of the property.
But here's the problem though, is when I own none of the property, or when I have none of my money invested in the property, or when I own the entire thing, meaning there's no mortgage on the property, that property is growing at the same rate. The value, the appreciation, is the exact same. So when I have put none of my money into the property, I am earning an infinite return on my money. Math teacher speak here, I have no money in the property, so I am only gaining on that property. And this is what got some people into some trouble back in 2007, 2008, they got a little bit too excited on this idea, but the reality is you're gaining on no money invested. Whereas someone who has a fully paid off house, for example, my parents now own their home. They have all this dead equity sitting there.
It is growing at the same rate that it was back when they didn't actually have any principle in that property. And fundamentally, it's an opportunity cost that you have as an investor, where this money is sitting there. You feel good because you don't owe any money on your property. But ultimately, it's like that is money that could potentially be put somewhere else, or even if it's a portion, we're not suggesting you necessarily go and mortgage the whole farm, but imagine a world where you can unlock some of that equity and bring it over to a place where it could actually grow into more money and more assets, so that your wealth is truly growing.

Jon Orr: For me, Kyle, that idea right there was so foreign to me that I had that opportunity. For you to say even just a few years ago, for me, I'm a relatively new investor, or a new person who's changed their mindset around their financial future. And I think for you to say that I had actual equity, I never thought about it as access to capital that I could take and put somewhere else, I would've just thought that that was in my home. I'll have that someday when I sell my house. I never thought I could have access to a portion or a part of that equity now to take and do something else with, that could generate say more wealth for me. That idea was foreign, and I think could be foreign to a lot of listeners right now, that right now the equity you've built up in your home, the part that you actually own, you could access that to buy something or invest something that actually brings more money into your compound interest machine, which is your financial future.

Matt Biggley: And I think John, it's that concept of leverage that makes real estate so wonderful. That you don't have to have 100% of the cost of a property to be able to purchase it. It allows you to put down 20% or 30%. And so I think that leverage principle, that leverage concept, is huge in real estate and certainly something that we've been able to build a huge portfolio as a result of. But I think I want to go back to what Kyle talked about with his parents, and it really part of this mindset shift is understanding one's own need for safety. And John, in episode one you talked a lot about the need for safety and security. I talked a lot about becoming a teacher because in part it was safe and secure.
And so I think for so many people, the beginning of this comes from building that mindset shift, and maybe doing some reading and some learning around that, so that you can then maybe assess your risk tolerance, and then get a degree of comfort around doing something that might have been, as you just talked about, you might have perceived that as risky at a time and now you see it as an opportunity. So I think understanding where you are now on that sort of risk versus safety continuum, and then actually being able to invest in your own education to help shift your mindset to a place where you're okay with taking on perhaps more risk. And I think I'm going to say for most of us in these professions, we're pretty risk averse, we're pretty conservative, maybe fiscally and otherwise. But as we've said, this equity can become your primary wealth building tool, if you're willing to shift from that mindset and be able to take on some more risk.

Kyle Pearce: I really like how you've defined that, this need for safety, and I think some people might get a little nervous. I'm imagining every dollar that I put into my home, whether it's through the minimum payments on my mortgage, like the actual payments, or whatever the bank had set up for me over 25, 30 years or whatever timeline you have. Every time I put that dollar in, it was almost like, John, you painted this picture as that dollar will never come back to me until I sell that property.
As if, and here's the thing, it's almost like in your mind you've already made a commitment to yourself that at some point in time I'm going to have to sell in order to get it back. That's a backwards mindset. It's like why do I have to sell this? And it's like this idea of downsize comes to mind. Well eventually when you retire you have to downsize. Imagine a world where you are like, no, what if I just want to stay in this home for the rest of my life? Do I never get that dollar back? Is it only my kids or my heirs who are going to actually benefit from this? Or maybe there's some other way.

Jon Orr: Yeah, I guess that's what I was imagining, Kyle, is that my mindset was that I had to downsize. I wouldn't be able to pull that money. And I always looked at it as, your house was the way for you to save for your retirement future. Eventually you're going to have to sell that house to get that money back. I never looked at it as a way for you to use it now for building more wealth. It was a completely foreign idea to me. And I think you helped me with this, Kyle, you were a big part of my mindset transition in thinking about the assets that I own currently, or the amounts that I have currently available to me. I never had a home equity line of credit until only a few years ago, in realizing that by using my home equity line of credit, I could purchase another asset that generates cash flow.
And that was because, I think, you helped me with understanding that, which was you recommended a book a number of years ago. You said, you know what you need to read Rich Dad, Poor Dad from Robert Kiyosaki, which I remember thinking, I've heard of that book, I've heard of that title, but until I read that book... It spoke to me so clearly because how that book is written, Robert talks about having his real dad, which what he called his poor dad always told him, pay down your mortgage, make sure you have your pension, make sure you're not taking risk. Make sure that you follow this pathway, that I think a lot of us follow. And then compared that to, he called his rich dad, which is a dad that he had his friend, who always was more of an entrepreneur, someone who bought assets said, let's put our money into assets that help produce cash flow, and so that it can help buy other assets. That was what changed my mindset about using my equity in my home to make safe investments.
That is such a no-brainer after I read that book to go, look, I've got this equity in my home, which is going to appreciate in value and the money, like you said, was called a dead equity. It's just sitting there. And if I could take a portion of that, not all of it, and using your idea, Matt, thinking about leverage, that if I could take a portion of that and use that to buy a home, buy a rental property, and really I'm buying the down payment on that rental property. I'm not buying the whole rental property, we're taking a mortgage out on the rest, and I'm going to use that part of my equity in my home and it's going to buy that house over there, and the renter is going to pay the mortgage, and the renter's also going to pay all the expenses, and the renter's actually going to pay me cash flow, which then I can take that and pay the interest from my home equity line of credit. And it basically feels like free money, because all I did was take this-

Kyle Pearce: Mind blowing.

Jon Orr: Right. All I did was take what I've already built and instead of waiting for 20 years to get access to that after I sell it, use it now to get an asset over here which pays all of it upfront. It's like, why wouldn't I do that? And especially partnering with you two to help it feel way more safe. It was just like, why wouldn't I do this as much as I can? And it was because of you guys, and that book, that helped change my mindset to make this a reality.

Kyle Pearce: I love it. I love it. John, you set it up perfectly because I really wanted to make sure we highlighted too, because earlier in the episode I was kind of envisioning, I was trying to pretend that I was my former self before this journey. The listener of this podcast who's going, yeah, so you're telling me to do these things, and then go and take my money out of my house that I thought was going to be secured and locked there until I retired, and I had to...
All these mindset pieces are being affected. And I think the part that I want to be really explicit about, and you helped to highlight here and segue to, was this idea of you have to have the confidence and the understanding of this journey. You can't just go, "Hey, I listened to this one episode and they told me that this is what I need to do," and then go do it tomorrow. That's just not a realistic expectation. It's actually a really poor choice, to be honest. Don't go do that. You need to build an understanding. You need to understand what is happening here, and that will give you the confidence.
Because right now, why I think so few people out there do this is because the ignorance, not being disrespectful, just being unaware of what it is and how to go about this, the unawareness, the lack of awareness, is actually holding them back and it also creates fear. So those two things are going to hold somebody back from being able to do something. So there is work to be done here, but you just highlighted it. It's like if you find people that you can trust and that you can actually learn from, be essentially guided. And that's really what we're trying to do here through this podcast. Being able to guide people to understand this idea, and to start shifting your mindset.
And I know we're all big on mindset, but Matt, you are definitely someone who digs into the mindset piece because it is so important in anything you do in life. Tell us a little bit more about why mindset, and then where might somebody go to start maybe working on the mindset? Because it's almost like without shifting your mindset, it's really hard to do any of this learning. You have to start shifting mindset, and then the learning will start to become easier, I think, anyway. What are your thoughts on that?

Matt Biggley: Yeah, I can't emphasize and I can't agree enough just how much and how important it is to build the right mindset even before you start trying these tactics out. Because if you don't have the right mindset, at the first hint of a challenge, or a problem, or whatever it might be, you're going to exit, you're going to get scared, you're going to parachute yourself out of there. So building that mindset, and it's something I'm constantly doing even now, years and years into our investing journey, always revisiting, rereading, reeducating myself on mindset. So it really begins with mindset before it begins with tactics, and that's why I'm stressing this so much. There's so many great books out there that I would definitely offer and advise to our students. Rich Dad, Poor Dad is one we've talked about already.
Probably my favorite Money mindset book of all time, I literally buy this book for people all the time. I just gave it to my video guy at the real estate brokerage last week, and he was talking about money and about maybe some of his hold ups about money. I was like, I'm going to buy you this book. I just bought it for someone I leased commercial space to who's got this hair salon empire that she's building. It's called You Are a Badass At Making Money, by a woman named Jen Sincero. I'm literally rereading it right now over the Christmas break. There are so many great exercises in there to help you unpack all the weird stuff you think about money. It's like money actually is totally neutral, but as humans we give it all these connotations, many of it negative. If someone enjoys making money, well all of a sudden we see them as greedy, or we give them some kind of a negative connotation on that.
So I love how this unpacks, demystifies, and breaks down both our personal hangups on money, and then how society has got this screwed up, messed up way of thinking about money. And it really helps you unpack that, and almost free yourself, and really start to think about money in a positive way. I think of Grow Rich, this is a classic. This is the book they say that has made more millionaires than anyone else. Admittedly some of the language in there feels a little bit out of touch, or a little bit out of tune maybe with 2022, but the fundamentals in there are terrific. But the other one I want to point out and really recommend, and Kyle, this is one I shared with you a while ago, this is called Die With Zero and this really turned=.

Kyle Pearce: I love that one.

Matt Biggley: Turned on its head, this idea of living rich versus dying rich. At first when you listen to or read this book, you say, oh my gosh, this guy is crazy. But he has this amazing calculus around time, health, and money, and the balance around those, and really turns on its head this idea of waiting until you are retired and older to start spending and using your money. And so I really love just that antithetical turning that idea upside down that most of us have. This is exactly what we're talking about, how we're conditioned and taught to think about money, and when it's okay to start to spend that and use that. I love that book. Die With Zero is one that will have you both scratching your head, and asking yourself a lot of deep questions about your perceptions of money.

Jon Orr: Good tips here, Matt. And I think there's a couple books on that list that I haven't read yet that I've just written down to add to my list. I know that sometimes reading the right book at the right time can change everything. There are books that I've read and didn't think that they had such an impact on my learning, and then I reread at a later time and I'm like, I know I read this, but I didn't take this away this time like I did last time. So somebody listening right now might be like, "I read Rich Dad Poor Dad years ago," or, "I read maybe Die With Zero years ago, but maybe I should read it again, because it's the right book at the right time." That, I think, makes all of the difference here. I want to keep going here. I want to clear up something, or start to clear up something that I think maybe we talked about earlier in the episode, which was this idea between good debt and bad debt.
I'm curious because as a new investor, maybe there are some investors like me listening who are unsure of what that actually refers to. I think we hinted at some ideas of what good debt might look like, but let's jump in here. I wonder if either of you guys could clear up what is bad debt? Because I think most of us think all debt is bad, so that might be easy to understand. But when we say good debt, maybe there's people going, wait, I still think all debt is bad debt. So when is debt good? Debt all of a sudden just ingrained us, we used to teach at school all debt was bad. Get rid of debt as fast as possible, don't carry debt. It's something we don't want, but why would I want to have debt?

Kyle Pearce: It's a great, great question. And the reality is that really, I guess I look at bad debt is anything that is connected to an expense. To something that depreciates in value over time. And number one, the easiest one is a car, right? A vehicle is going to depreciate in value. And when you take out that loan on a car, that car value is depreciating each year, and the first couple years especially, it depreciates the most, and you are paying interest to borrow money against that expense. And it makes you start to wonder and think about, I know there's people out there that are passionate about cars, but the average person I don't think is actually passionate about a car. Somehow it's ingrained in us that having a new car is great, even a new car that isn't even that nice. You see people get a sedan, your general average sedan, you see a bunch of them on the road and yet we feel compelled to buy new versions of this car.
The marketing is so intense or whatever it is where we get this mindset that is bad debt. Whereas good debt is when you have debt connected to something that typically, and I use the word typically because you have to be cautious, it doesn't always go up, but an asset that appreciates. And I would say the asset that we feel most comfortable and confident with would be real estate, because land is scarce, everyone needs a place to live, and it can generate income. Whereas even though, let's say stocks, bonds, mutual funds, those are technically assets, the reality is, I think your chances of them maybe going up or down is a little less in your control, and maybe a little more risky. I say a little more, much more risky. So actually borrowing money in order to invest in a real estate asset, in some sort of property that is going to generate not only the passive appreciation. The property over time will go up.
There will be blips in the market. Those in the US know 2007, 2008, if you bought here locally in Canada over this past year, probably not the best time to get in. It was at all-time highs, and we were not buying real estate, we were waiting. And now that the market is cooling a little bit, we're now back on the prowl looking for more properties that we can actually invest in. So again, it's about making sure that you're comfortable and confident in the property that you're going to purchase, and also ensuring that the actual property is going to generate enough income, enough revenue, that it's going to actually cover those expenses, your borrowing costs. And ideally, in a perfect world, it's going to put some extra money in your pocket, which we're not necessarily using to go buy cars or buy other things.
We usually put it that to the side and go, okay, this is our just in case fund, so that if something goes wrong, i.e., The other day at one of our properties where the hot water tank basically exploded on Christmas Eve, that is not going to slow us down. It's not going to make us think, ah, we made a mistake here. It's a blip in the road and this extra cash that's sitting on the side is ready to come into action and be deployed.
So the reality is, for us, it's really real estate is the thing. Maybe a business as well, if you know the business that you're investing in very well, then sure you could also take out a loan in order to purchase or to fund a business. However, again, from a safety perspective, from the fact that everyone needs a place to live, that real estate in general over the long run appreciates in value, or at least stays in line with inflation, it is such a great bet in order to be able to leverage and maximize each dollar that you're going to put into your wealth building strategy, so that it can go as far and as wide as it possibly can.

Matt Biggley: Kyle, thanks so much. You had so many great ideas there to share about real estate in particular. I mean this is a big, big topic. One of the other things that comes to mind in addition to the three ways to win with cash flow, appreciation, and mortgage pay down, it's also incredibly passive. So for all these working professionals that are thinking they'll be the ones fixing that hot water tank on Christmas Eve, that's not the case at all. However, we could go down a major rabbit hole and talk about real estate. There's so much here to unpack. We're going to spend many future episodes doing just that. For now, though, I'd like to talk about what our big takeaways are from this episode. And John, we've talked about a lot, we've heard a lot, we've had some really great dialogue here today. What's your big takeaway?

Jon Orr: I think my big takeaway here is that I still think that paying down my mortgage as fast as possible is something that I'm actively trying to do, but with the idea in mind that I do have access to this asset, which is my home, which is the equity in my home, that I can use to compound my wealth. I can use that now, without waiting to sell my home later. I can use that to, say, buy an asset, buy a real estate property that's a rental, and then get those three benefits that you guys described, and helped me understand, and that can compound my wealth. So when we talked about at the beginning of this, should we be paying down our mortgage as fast as possible? Is that a myth? I still think that we want to do that, but we don't want to think that our house is this solitary thing that's separate from how we can use it to build wealth.
So I think my big takeaway is understanding that you do have, say, an asset there that you can put to use. And then the other thing you want to think about is put it to use with a partner. Put it to use with support. Find the people who know about how to invest that money or how to go about doing that, so that you're not doing it alone. For me, that's the part that helps transition from thinking about not investing my money, to be investing my money but in a safe way for me and my family. Find the right people to do that with, so it takes a lot of the risk off.
I think if you tried to be saying like, look, I'm going to apply everything I learned from Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I'm going to use the equity of my home to buy a rental property, but then am I the one going to be fixing the hot water tank on Christmas Eve? How do I think about this rental property this way? Find the right partners like I did with you guys on how to make that a reality, so that I'm starting to compound my wealth but in a very safe way. And I think for me, that's always the thing that I'm learning to do is I want to do this safely. I want to do this with less risk than I think some people think you have to do. So that's my big takeaway, is that we do want to pay down that mortgage, but we can also access this asset we have.

Kyle Pearce: I love it. I love it. So I've still got this picture, John, of this thought so many people have as you're going to just put money into your house, pay down your house, and then you have to sell your house in order to benefit from all of the saving that you've done. Massive takeaway that I took from even just you sharing that story, because I never really viewed it that way, but it's like, wow, that's really articulated, I think, what so many people have in their minds, whether they can articulate it or not. So that is a big one, and I love this idea. We will get into it, for those who are listening, you were saying use your equity. Some people, we didn't get into it this episode, but we will, were probably thinking, how do I get access to that money? And we will talk about options of refinancing, home equity lines of credit are big ones.
So if you want to do some research on your own now, those would be two things that you want to read up on, and how that might be helpful for you in order to take that first step. And then John, you also mentioned this idea of finding partners you know, like, and trust. I'm the type of person I probably tacked on an extra 10 years onto my journey by doing all the work myself for a long time. Until I ran into Matt and one of our former partners, Matt, we put our heads together and then it was like, whoa. Once we put our heads together, we started to have way more traction than when you're on your own and you're left to your own devices. You have both the devil and the angel on your shoulder fighting each other, and when you have partners, this can make things go a whole lot more smoothly and effectively.
For me, my big takeaways that I hope you walk away with is this idea of, okay, maybe you heard loud and clear, this idea that maybe just piling money into your mortgage may not be the best move. If you're already doing that, I would continue to do that until you're ready to do something else. So that's a big takeaway. But then the second one is if you decide now you're like, whoa, I got to get on this bandwagon. I've got to start compounding my money. My suggestion is if you're going to stop making those extra mortgage payments, the question is where are you going to put your money in the meantime?
If you let it sit there in your checking account and it's just waiting there, you're human, it's going to blur the lines of where that money is. So open up a separate account or have a spreadsheet. You've got to have some strategy so that that money is going somewhere. So if you don't have that set up, then maybe keep those payments going to the mortgage for now, until you get a clearer game plan and then we can start revisiting this idea of a home equity line of credit, or a refinance option that might make sense so that you can leverage that money back. Take that money back, and then put it into another compounding asset. Matt, what is your big takeaway you hope people take with them here today?

Matt Biggley: Guys, I love both of yours. The whole idea of partnering is huge for me. I'm such a deep believer in partnerships. This partnership has made growing our wealth so much more fun. We have conversations almost every single day where we're unpacking ideas, and we're going to talk about this in future episodes, but then you become partners with different lenders, and partners with different trades and you develop your team of partners. So partners is huge. Kyle, I love that you had something very tactical and very strategic to share with people. For me, this really comes back to mindset. There are few topics, or few things in this world that cause people as much stress and fear as money does, and the topic of money. So I think if you can start to work on shifting your mindset around money, and debt, and what is good debt, that is the key to unlocking everything else on this journey.

Kyle Pearce: I love it. I love it. These are some great, great conversations, and I'm looking at our document guys, and I see we had so many ideas that we didn't even get to just on this topic, which makes me excited for our future episodes. Friends, what's your big takeaway? If you want to be a true invested student, so that eventually one day you're feeling like you are compounding that wealth, that you are along your wealth building journey, you've got to find a way to reflect on some of this learning. Are you going to have a conversation with your partner? Are you going to maybe make a comment on this page on our show notes page, over at theinvestedteacher.com website? Whatever you choose to do, you need to find a way that you're going to write down some of these ideas, so that they're not just passing thoughts, and that they're actually actionable items that you're going to dig into and actually apply into your everyday life.

Jon Orr: Yeah, great tips there Kyle. I think that is so important to start your journey, if you have not yet started your journey, is to think about those action items, and think about what you're going to do. And sharing your thoughts with a person, talking about them out loud is so important to start that. Also, if you have not yet done so, hit subscribe on this podcast so that you can get notified of future episodes. Also, hit us up on all social media. We are @InvestedTeacher on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all of those things.
One more thing before we sign off here folks, is if you've listened to an episode or two before, maybe you've listened to, this is your second episode, we'd appreciate it if you left a rating and review on your podcast platform as well, because that will help the algorithm figure out whether it should send our podcast to another person just like you, to help them on their invested journey. So please leave a rating and review so that you can help the show get to a wider audience, and that will in turn help us all become better investors.

Matt Biggley: Thank you, John. Share this podcast with your friends, with your family, anyone else you think would benefit from their learning journey with us. All links, resources, and transcripts from this episode can be found over on our website investedteacher.com/episode2. Again, that is Canadian Wealth Secrets.com/episode2.

Kyle Pearce: All right, our invested students, class dismissed.

Matt Biggley: Woohoo!