Episode 64: Become a Lazy Canadian Millionaire Investor – Learning Passive Income Secrets from Jim Chuong 

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How can you retire early and gain time freedom you’ve been after since you started your wealth building journey?

In today’s fast-paced world, achieving financial independence and early retirement is a coveted goal for many, but it often feels out of reach.

In this episode we speak with the Lazy Canadian Millionaire Investor: Jim Chuong. Jim retired at the age of 40 after building his investment and real estate portfolio to levels that allow him to live off of the cashflow. 

Jim’s here to help you discover the secrets to retiring early, mastering negotiation for wealth maximization, and unlocking pathways to financial freedom. We also dig into invaluable lessons that were never taught in school about working smart, not just hard, and how to leverage your time effectively to create more freedom in your life.

Gain insights from Jim’s 30 years of investing experience and start your journey towards financial independence today.

What you’ll learn: 

  • The two methods that allow you to retire early and buy your time freedom; 
  • How learning skills of negotiation is key to maximizing your wealth 
  • Which pathway will get you towards wealth and early retirement; 
  • Learn what our parents and teachers should have taught us but never did – how to work rich instead of work hard.
  • How to increase time freedom by finding ways to do less and maximize leverage;



Calling All Canadian Incorporated Business Owners & Investors:

Consider reaching out to Kyle if you’ve been…

  • …taking a salary with a goal of stuffing RRSPs;
  • …investing inside your corporation without a passive income tax minimization strategy;
  • …letting a large sum of liquid assets sit in low interest earning savings accounts;
  • …investing corporate dollars into GICs, dividend stocks/funds, or other investments attracting corporate passive income taxes at greater than 50%; or,
  • …wondering whether your current corporate wealth management strategy is optimal for your specific situation.

By hopping on a discovery call with Kyle, he will review your specific personal and corporate financial situation in order to determine if there are some quick wins available for you to minimize taxes personally or corporately, provide ideas for how you can increase your personal cash flow, and ensure that the net worth of your estate continues to grow in tandem.

Let’s Connect For A Discovery Call!

For those interested in having a review of your financial wealth plan, learning more about potential joint venture (JV) opportunities, or a mortgage review, book a free discovery call now.

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Episode Summary:

Jim Chuong’s Investment Philosophy Journey

Jim Chuong shared his personal experiences and influences that led him to develop his investment philosophy. He discussed his upbringing, where his parents pushed him to excel academically, leading him to study advanced courses in math and science. However, he felt burned out by the constant strive for perfection and decided to seek a shortcut to financial success. This led him to the concept of investing, where he believed he could achieve financial independence without having to work long hours. He also shared his failed attempts at finding a ‘shortcut’ in books and libraries, concluding that the information he sought was not readily available.


Investing Over Employment: Personal Experiences

Jim Chuong criticized traditional investment strategies and shared his personal experience of failing in his engineering studies at the University of Toronto. He emphasized his preference for investing in businesses rather than working in them. Kyle Pearce shared his personal experience about failing in second-year university and reflected on life. He emphasized the importance of recognizing what is worth working hard for and the notion that success often comes from business and investing rather than starting off as an employee. He also touched on the challenges faced by educators and questioned the conventional path of education. Jim Chuong shared his experiences of realizing that much of the work he was asked to do was unnecessary and his choice of a different path aimed at wealth rather than status.


Startup Journey: From Office Space to Telecom Projects

Jim Chuong shared the story of starting a business with his engineering friends in the early days of the internet. They secured affordable office space and were offered projects from a larger telecommunications company, which helped them grow to a team of 400. However, when the tech bubble burst, Jim’s shares became worthless and he decided to return to corporate life after a two-year break.


Financial Freedom and Retirement Strategies

A discussion about financial freedom and retirement was led by Jon Orr, seeking advice from Jim Chuong. Jim emphasized the importance of expenses and passive cash flow in achieving financial independence. He explained the “4% rule” as a method to calculate the amount needed for retirement, but noted it might need adjustment for younger individuals. Jim shared his investment strategy, which involved using cash flow from US rentals to cover expenses and having a portfolio of stocks. Kyle Pearce stressed the importance of tailoring one’s approach to risk tolerance and financial needs, avoiding lifestyle inflation, and sticking to a well-planned financial path. The discussion highlighted the need for diversification in investments and the role of passive income in providing financial security.


Social Media Accountability and Investment Strategies

Kyle Pearce and Jim Chuong had a discussion about Jim’s use of social media, particularly Tiktok, for accountability. Jim shared his approach to creating content on the platform, emphasizing its minimal effort and editing requirements. The conversation also touched on the importance of discipline in achieving success, with Jim suggesting that success isn’t solely based on motivation. Jim also shared his investment and business approach, advocating for minimizing effort while maximizing impact and increasing time freedom. The discussion concluded with Kyle appreciating Jim’s tips and encouraging others to follow him on social media.

00:00:00:03 – 00:00:17:06
Jim Chuong
Though. I was working there. I’m making four bucks an hour. And you never talk back to your parents, right? Especially if they’re from the old country and they’re from the sixties. Right. Unless you want to be physically harmed. So anyway, I. I basically was doing dishes for dollars and I was thinking they’re wrong. They have to be wrong.

00:00:17:06 – 00:00:20:23
Jim Chuong
They might be my parents, but I am pretty sure that they’re wrong. For three, how.

00:00:20:23 – 00:00:37:10
Kyle Pearce
Can you retire early and gain time freedom you’ve been after since you started your wealth building journey in today’s fast pace world, achieving financial independence and early retirement is a coveted goal for many, but it often feels out of reach.

00:00:37:12 – 00:00:50:05
Jon Orr
In this episode, we speak with the lazy Canadian millionaire investor Jim Chung. Jim retired at the age of 40 after building his investment real estate portfolio to levels that allow him to live off of the cash flow.

00:00:50:07 – 00:01:12:13
Kyle Pearce
Jim’s here to help you discover the secrets to retiring early mastering negotiation for wealth maximization and unlocking pathways to financial freedom. We also dig into invaluable lessons that were never taught in school about working smart, not just hard, and how to leverage your time effective lead to create more freedom in your life.

00:01:12:15 – 00:01:31:06
Jon Orr
Gain insight from Jim’s 30 years of investing experience and start your journey towards financial independence right now.

00:01:31:08 – 00:01:36:09
Kyle Pearce
Welcome to the Canadian Wealth Secrets Podcast with Kyle Pierce and John Award.

00:01:36:13 – 00:01:49:01
Jon Orr
We are recovering high school mathematics teachers and education consultants whose entrepreneurial spirit led us to begin multiple businesses of real estate investing, digital courses and coaching and consulting. After the bell rang at dismissal time.

00:01:49:07 – 00:02:17:18
Kyle Pearce
Fast forward a decade later where we’ve grown our portfolios and our time freedom to the point where we can now help entrepreneurs business owners and investors grow their wealth into a legacy that lasts generations. Through hidden investment and tax secrets. Your financial advisors won’t believe our true John. I’m super excited to dig into this interview with Jim Chong, who I’ve been following for quite some time on social media.

00:02:18:00 – 00:02:33:10
Kyle Pearce
And I’m telling you, he’s got some really interesting perspectives on all things wealth, all things investing and really just all things lifestyle, including how to be a true Canadian lazy investor.

00:02:33:15 – 00:02:58:19
Jon Orr
Let’s dig in. Welcome, Jim, to the Canadian Wealth Secrets podcast. We’re excited to have you here today to get into your brain and your mind and get some thoughts out to the audience. Do us a favor, though, before we kind of roll Intuit. Let us know where you’re coming from. And then also maybe just give us a little bit of insight into what unique ability you bring to the entrepreneurial business wealth creation space.

00:02:58:21 – 00:03:22:00
Jim Chuong
Well, thank you for having me. John Kyle. My name is Jim. I was born and raised in Toronto, Canada. First generation to immigrant parents. They came here in the sixties. I was raised in the seventies, and as I was growing up, I started investing or learning about investing through the usual channels, or maybe not so usual because a lot of people are still sort of not doing it, but not investing.

00:03:22:02 – 00:03:47:14
Jim Chuong
Yeah, the Peter Lynch Warren Buffet had been Graham path and started investing in U.S. stocks and U.S. real estate. And after that I basically got into social media and now I have 5 million views on Tik Tok a month, as well as 5 million views on Instagram a month. And I just got on to Etsy, but I haven’t cracked that code, formerly known as Twitter.

00:03:47:15 – 00:04:03:22
Jim Chuong
So I’m just sort of sharing what I’ve done over the last 30 plus years, investing in stocks and real estate, but with a US focus. And that’s unusual I guess for most people because I speak to Canadians, but all my investments are in America.

00:04:03:24 – 00:04:26:19
Kyle Pearce
Hi, So appreciate that. And for anyone who’s wondering and they’re going, wait a second, have I seen this person on Tik Tok or Facebook, Instagram, wherever you’re at, it is that lazy Canadian investor. I love that title. That’s what intrigued me when I kind of stumbled upon your profile, gave it a click because John and I speak to Canadians as well, and I think there’s a lot of similarities in the messaging that you have.

00:04:26:19 – 00:04:52:21
Kyle Pearce
And there’s also some differences. I would argue it might be maybe blind spots on our part or maybe just areas we haven’t explored yet. But the part about the U.S. piece, I think there’s definitely a clear connection there. I had seen a post you were talking about U.S. real estate, you were talking about the U.S. markets. And just to give you a little background, back when I was teaching my former world of teaching, I started investing in the U.S. back in around 2011.

00:04:53:01 – 00:05:11:06
Kyle Pearce
I think the difference, though, there’s a big difference there, is it sounds like you were smart enough to go heavy at the time, whereas I kind of dipped my toes in. It was my first investment property I bought and I also bought with this thought in my mind. I’m a very at the time I was I’m still this way, but at the time I was like very safe.

00:05:11:08 – 00:05:38:10
Kyle Pearce
I had my little pension. I say little a great pension that we were working towards, but I wanted more. And my parents were like, Don’t invest in real estate. This is crazy. So then I did all this research. It took me from probably 2006 to 2011 to finally pull the trigger and I bought a property and I made sure, could we use this as a vacation home in case this doesn’t work out like everyone’s always fearful, Will I ever be able to rent this thing?

00:05:38:10 – 00:05:58:12
Kyle Pearce
What if no one wants to live there? All of those things went through my mind, picked up a place in Florida, picked up a place in Arizona the year later, but then pump the brakes and wanted to see like, is this going to work? And obviously after the fact went, boy, I missed a chance of an opportunity to really go hard at that time.

00:05:58:12 – 00:06:23:18
Kyle Pearce
So I want to hear your angle. I know that you did some investing back then. You were doing U.S. stocks, from what I recall, in back around that 2008 scenario. And you took advantage of U.S. real estate. Take us back and tell us that time in your life, where were you? Did you feel financially secure at the time or did you just know, like this is going to be the opportunity of a lifetime?

00:06:23:18 – 00:06:24:24
Kyle Pearce
And I got a jump on it.

00:06:25:01 – 00:06:45:07
Jim Chuong
And there’s a lot of good questions there. Kyle, So I’ll go back to that was just sort of a symptom of everything that happened to me in the seventies, the eighties. I was very influenced by my parents and my teachers, so teachers had a huge impact on me because that was the metric by way. I had an approval from my parents, right?

00:06:45:07 – 00:07:07:11
Jim Chuong
So if my teachers liked me because I did well in their courses, my parents would appreciate me. So that was sort of probably an insecurity that I had as a child. So when my parents wanted me to study hard and it was always studying hard for the same courses, it was like the physics chemistry, the math courses and that then I don’t know if they have it now.

00:07:07:11 – 00:07:27:06
Jim Chuong
Course, we were split into advanced and general, they streamed you into advanced. I don’t remember how they decided. I think you just test. You decided you just decided you wanted to school, you pick. So my parents decided that I should suffer on the advanced track. I would be like one of those people that back then we had textbooks and I wouldn’t be prompted by the teachers.

00:07:27:06 – 00:07:44:21
Jim Chuong
You just be they would have the example. They would have questions in the back of the book, they would have the answers. And so basically I just kept drilling. I was just drilling constantly. So every class I was prepared. I’d be like the 10% that John talks about who’s like, What about this and what about that, and how do you do it if this is missing or that’s missing?

00:07:44:24 – 00:07:52:19
Jim Chuong
Because I want it to be fully covered for any test or any quiz or anything like that so that I could get the marks I needed and get the approval from my parents.

00:07:52:22 – 00:08:05:04
Kyle Pearce
What did your teacher say? We got to know this. As former math teachers, we want to know what was the answer that the teachers gave you when you were like, Why does that happen? Was it always was it positive or was it like, just do the work, kid?

00:08:05:05 – 00:08:21:07
Jim Chuong
I had a teacher that looked very similar to John. I guess that was what colored what a math teacher should look like. Yeah. So he was very into my but he just loved math and he would be happy to talk about these problems and go over these type of things with me and sort of help me understand things.

00:08:21:07 – 00:08:31:12
Jim Chuong
And I also had my dad was an engineer who also helped me walk through things, and he was more than happy to give me extra assignments. Fortunately.

00:08:31:14 – 00:08:50:04
Jon Orr
I got to say, what you just described is not someone who is lazy. You just said, Hey, back then I worked hard. I flipped through things. I got this done. When we as high school teachers, when we saw students who are going above and beyond, we wouldn’t classify them as lazy. But you’re calling yourself the lazy investor, lazy Canadian investors.

00:08:50:04 – 00:09:04:12
Jon Orr
So give me an insight here. You’re clearly not lazy, is it? You’re trying to think more passive. Is that where this kind of name comes from on your philosophy towards creating your own wealth? Give the audience a little snippet of where this lazy comes from and how it relates to your strategies.

00:09:04:16 – 00:09:26:10
Jim Chuong
That’s a perfect segue way because I got so burnt out trying to get higher and higher marks. My parents were not satisfied unless it was a 100% perfect school art. So even though I think in high school my average, I do all my courses was 94%, They were like, Why isn’t it 100th rank? So eventually when I was 15 years old, I said, Why are we playing this game?

00:09:26:10 – 00:09:49:05
Jim Chuong
Because it resets every semester, every semester at recess, and I have to keep doing this over and over again. What was this for? And they explain that traditional path where you do very well in high school. You get the university of your choice and the profession of your choice, and then you work for Fortune 500. And then after you do that and you do the same thing in the Fortune 500, you get a lot of money, right?

00:09:49:05 – 00:09:56:05
Jim Chuong
So at 15, I said, Why don’t we just give it to the money? I mean.

00:09:56:07 – 00:09:57:07
Jon Orr
Your shortcut.

00:09:57:09 – 00:10:04:21
Kyle Pearce
He’s not a lazy Canadian investor. He’s the smart Canadian investor. He’s like, Let’s just skip all the stuff and get to the fun.

00:10:04:23 – 00:10:22:11
Jim Chuong
Yeah, why don’t we just get to the money part? And my parents, either they didn’t want to discourage me or they didn’t know. Too embarrassed to say it. They just said it doesn’t work that way. Life doesn’t work that way. And you need to follow what we’re telling you because we’ve been through this and just trust. That’s right.

00:10:22:13 – 00:10:32:04
Jim Chuong
I had my first job as Saint Hubert’s. I don’t know if you guys had that, but I was at St Hubert’s Rotisserie Chicken. I was making $0.04 and we’re like a Swiss chalet area.

00:10:32:05 – 00:10:34:05
Kyle Pearce
There’s no Saint Hubert’s here, you know?

00:10:34:05 – 00:10:36:10
Jon Orr
Yeah, you got to be farther east.

00:10:36:12 – 00:10:38:20
Kyle Pearce
John’s a Kingston guy, so he’s all over it.

00:10:39:00 – 00:10:56:13
Jim Chuong
Yeah. So I was working there. I’m making four bucks an hour, and you never talk back to your parents, right? Especially if they’re from the old country and they’re from the sixties. Right. Unless you want to be physically aunt. So anyway, I basically was doing dishes at $4, and I was thinking, they’re wrong. They have to be wrong.

00:10:56:13 – 00:11:24:03
Jim Chuong
They might be my parents, but I am pretty sure they’re wrong for three reasons. And this is my reason I said I don’t think millionaires are working millions of hours because that’s how many hours I’d have to work at. $4 an hour, right? Right. A million bucks. There’s no way you can work 1000000 hours and then number two, I was thinking the path that they’re telling me, if I look around my classroom, if I look at my teachers, if I look at my relatives, if I look at my parents, they all followed that path, like they said.

00:11:24:08 – 00:11:51:00
Jim Chuong
But they’re not rich. They’re still working. I’m pretty sure that the people I’m reading in the newspaper who are wealthy in the financial section, they’re not doing this. I don’t think like there’s something missing. And the third thing I was thinking, like I knew on this planet, I’ve only been alive for about 15 years, but from history I could tell that man has been around for what, over 200,000 years, But one along this long history must have figured out the shortcut.

00:11:51:00 – 00:12:09:18
Jim Chuong
They must’ve figured it out, and they probably wrote it down somewhere. I mean, they probably wrote it. So the answer I am looking for must be in the library. It must be there. It’s in the library or is it? It calls notes in the bookstore. It’s going to be in one of those two places, because it definitely is not in school, because I read all the books.

00:12:09:20 – 00:12:33:23
Jim Chuong
Right. And as I started learning, the first books I read were by Peter Lynch and Robert Hagstrom, Warren Buffett, Ben Graham, etc., etc. I was thinking this path. I don’t know why everyone believes it, but it’s not right. It is so wrong. None of these investors talk about the path that my parents describe, and then my market started falling because everything I studied in school I was thinking, this is a waste of my time.

00:12:34:00 – 00:12:55:05
Jim Chuong
This is a waste of my time, this is a waste of my time. And I started dropping still high enough to get into engineering at the University of Toronto, but they kept dropping in until I failed. Second year I just failed because I second year university, I did nothing because every textbook was like heavy statistics, heavy calculus, heavy physics.

00:12:55:10 – 00:13:15:12
Jim Chuong
I was like, This has nothing to do with how comfortable my life will be. Nothing. Then once I failed out, my parents were devastated. So I said, okay, this is what I’m going to do as a compromise. I’m going to keep learning what I’m learning with will actually help me live a really good life. And I’ll just do the bare minimum hit that 75% average and just get my engineering degree.

00:13:15:12 – 00:13:34:20
Jim Chuong
So you’re happy. And then I became super lazy after that because I realized that all these investors, they didn’t work really hard. They didn’t grind. I mean, they could they had that choice, but they didn’t have to. They didn’t grind 40, 50, 60, 80 hours a week. They all of them, they had their little tweaks in terms of how they did it.

00:13:34:23 – 00:13:57:07
Jim Chuong
They all piggybacked off business, either starting one, buying one investing and why it was all business. It was all a business that they piggybacked off of. They become free. And that’s when I became super lazy and I said, okay, I’m going to put my twist on it. If I invest by or getting involved with a business, it needs to be like where I don’t have to work.

00:13:57:10 – 00:14:02:14
Jim Chuong
I don’t want to do the business, I just want to profit from it, right? So that’s where the lazy came from.

00:14:02:14 – 00:14:21:22
Kyle Pearce
I love it. Honestly, I feel like I had mentioned this. I can’t remember if we hit record yet or not when I said this, but I said it saw a lot of parallel lives and we have that in common too. We both failed in second year university, which is great. I was in math and I wouldn’t say was for maybe the the same reason.

00:14:21:22 – 00:14:46:18
Kyle Pearce
What I want to say. I want to go all the way back to the three things that you sort of recognized as a 15 year old that is incredibly reflective to be 15 and to have reflected on those three things. I’m pretty sure I had similar reflections when I was like 35 when I was finally like, Huh, okay, I was on this path, but I didn’t know for certain.

00:14:46:20 – 00:15:23:14
Kyle Pearce
And it seems like when I really look at it and we go under the hood, something that is really, I think, in your definition of lazy, whether maybe you recognize it or not. Of course, I’m sure the terminology is to kind of get people’s attention. But the reality is there’s certain things that are worth working really hard for and then there’s other things that maybe aren’t so a realization that it sounds like you figure it out along the way was like, okay, it might make sense to just get the degree and get whatever job you need to in order to get you closer to this path.

00:15:23:19 – 00:15:56:24
Kyle Pearce
The Ben Graham, the Warren Buffett’s, the Charlie Munger is the whoever’s where you’re able to have enough income to start that work or to create enough, maybe time in order to decide what are you going to do in the business space? What popped into my mind as you described that around all of these successful people, all of the wealthy, is that they didn’t do it from being a dishwasher at Roadkill Cafe like I started off with or at St Hubert’s of France in Quebec, or working at, let’s say, a teacher’s job, right.

00:15:56:24 – 00:16:19:21
Kyle Pearce
Without doing a lot of intentional planning and investing. It all came from business and reminds me of the cashflow quadrant, which I think is that a Kiyosaki Square talks about the four quadrants and trying to get from employee all the way to investor business owner like that side of the quadrant. And there’s so many good nuggets that you shared here.

00:16:19:23 – 00:16:39:11
Kyle Pearce
I’m wondering for those people, I want to say one more thing before I ask you this question. When I think about it as an educator, as a former educator, as someone who is working with students and I think teachers, it’s hard because teachers want what’s best for kids, but they’re all on the path you describe. They’re all on that traditional path.

00:16:39:13 – 00:17:12:12
Kyle Pearce
And I would also argue there is a caveat here. So I’m going to apologize to any teachers who might be listening because, hey, we still love you all. But the reality is, is that most teachers we earn here in Ontario, teachers earn a significant salary with one of the best pensions in the world, which means that you don’t have to really do any thinking about investing or about this other path, like, you’ll be okay, you’ll do your thing, you’ll do your 30 years, and you’ll be able to retire and probably live a decent lifestyle.

00:17:12:12 – 00:17:32:17
Kyle Pearce
Maybe not if you’re living in Toronto and own a $2 million house, we can get into that later. But you’re now educating the youth as to what the path is. And what I’m kind of recognizing is that that can’t be good for kids, right? Because not every 15 year old is going to be as reflective as you were to go.

00:17:32:19 – 00:17:58:10
Kyle Pearce
Hmm. There’s something about this that might not make any sense here. So I’m wondering, once you came out of university, I think you went into corporate, right? You did do some of that work. Was that against your will? Was that always sort of a temporary plan? What was your maybe goal there and how were you going to get from if you were already kind of going down that path as a compromise?

00:17:58:12 – 00:18:06:05
Kyle Pearce
What was your plan to sort of get to this path over here? Was it business? Did you open businesses? I’d love to hear more about that.

00:18:06:09 – 00:18:28:02
Jim Chuong
That’s a fantastic question. So I realize I became lazy because I realized 99% of the work that I was being asked to do by educators and university and so on, it just wasn’t necessary for what I wanted. I didn’t want to be a doctor or a lawyer. I just want to be rich. I was like, That sounds like a very difficult way to make money compared to what Warren Buffett is doing, where he’s staying home all day.

00:18:28:02 – 00:18:48:02
Jim Chuong
And he says this calendar is empty. And I think that’s what I want. I want the money with empty calendar. So after I graduate, I still didn’t want to work. So that was in the mid-nineties, like 95. And I said to avoid working, let’s start a business. So I roped in three of my engineering friends. One of them was really keen on the business.

00:18:48:02 – 00:19:00:16
Jim Chuong
The other two were like, I want to go to corporate, but I was just like, Come on, just give it a shot. We’re just kids. I mean, what could go wrong? So let you burn a couple of years of your life. We’re in our 20. Let’s go start a business. So they’re like, I don’t know what to start.

00:19:00:16 – 00:19:08:00
Jim Chuong
And back then, the Internet was new. I don’t know if you remember, but CompuServe, AOL Online was disks and all that stuff, right?

00:19:08:01 – 00:19:09:24
Jon Orr
The good old days. We had the good old days.

00:19:10:01 – 00:19:32:22
Jim Chuong
Yeah, 300 modems and stuff like that. So I said, let’s start a business. And we started playing around with it and it was like, we’re going to provide Internet services like an ISP, we’re going to do this or that. We didn’t know. So my friend, who was Steve, was very interested in a business as well. We’re always talking about money and investing, so I guess sort of like YouTube, but we were talking about that and there’s something called the Usenet newsgroup.

00:19:32:22 – 00:19:51:12
Jim Chuong
It’s like a newsgroup where it basically is a message board. It’s sort of like Reddit. It’s like Reddit. Yesterday, I remember, right. So he got on there and he says, Check this out, Jim. I got a place for our business downtown Toronto. These guys rented the entire floor and they are subletting some space they’re not using. So I was like, okay, let’s go check it out.

00:19:51:12 – 00:20:08:06
Jim Chuong
We went there. We met this guy who I thought was really old. He was 27. I thought he was super old. I was like, Wow, this is an old guy. He knows what he’s doing. And then and we were led 23, 22, and he’s like, Yeah, we have the space here. What do you guys do? We’re like, Well, we’re four engineers and we’re going to do this.

00:20:08:06 – 00:20:24:24
Jim Chuong
And his eyes lit up. He’s like, Well, give you the space for 500 bucks a month, and you have the receptionist and the fax machine and the phones and you get you guys get all that and you can just do your work right here. Just put all your equipment here. And I was so excited because I saw a 500 split between four guys was super cheap.

00:20:24:24 – 00:20:46:14
Jim Chuong
It’s like 100 bucks and 525 bucks. And I told my mom, I said, We’re going to start a business as we’re going to do. And typical immigrant parents is like, Why didn’t you ask for 400 a month? I said, Why are the five hundreds already cheap? Is like you could still ask. Now you. I was like, I couldn’t argue with that.

00:20:46:17 – 00:21:01:11
Jim Chuong
So the next day they’re like 25% discount. Come on. I know, I know. I wasn’t thinking that way. I was thinking in terms of money’s plentiful. What’s the point of negotiating 100 bucks? But, you know, I know what you mean. So I go there and the 27 year old said, So what do you guys think of the offer?

00:21:01:14 – 00:21:09:12
Jim Chuong
I was like, We like the idea of using your facilities and this and that, but how about 400 a month You have a deal and even think about it again, no problem.

00:21:09:14 – 00:21:12:01
Jon Orr
Other Thanks, Mom.

00:21:12:03 – 00:21:28:17
Jim Chuong
I was like, I should ask for 300. Yeah, that’s why I signed up for baseball. So we’re setting up our computers and he comes into the office looking at us. Set up and he was like, Listen, in addition to having too much space, we have too much work. So this is the beginning of the Internet. Everyone wanted to get it on the Internet.

00:21:28:17 – 00:21:52:00
Jim Chuong
No one had a website, right? And he’s like, We work where our hands are tied with a large Canadian telecommunications company. We have our hands full with that. It’s a big project I’ve hired. This guy was super smart, this 27 year old. He was young, very super smart. This guy sold a project to a large Canadian telecommunication company before having employees and before having a space.

00:21:52:02 – 00:22:12:16
Jim Chuong
He was in New York. He came here, he started selling Internet services, building whatever people needed. Once they signed an agreement, he took the money and then started hiring or renting space. He took the money first and then got the he didn’t basically ran and then hire people. He started looking for work. He made sure he had the contract.

00:22:12:16 – 00:22:28:02
Jim Chuong
Then he hired out. And then so he was like, you know, we’re kind of busy with this. And I have this project with a German bank that I can’t handle. I don’t have enough employees. Do you guys want to do it? I was like, What are you talking about? And then it was like ten grand, We need you to do this.

00:22:28:03 – 00:22:49:02
Jim Chuong
I’m like, Wow, look at that. Sales falling from the sky. It was like, okay. And then so that’s exactly what happened. His team of salespeople would approach him about, Can we handle this project if he said no, or We need to hire people, we can’t do it. They would just throw it to us. We were getting their scraps and so we did that.

00:22:49:02 – 00:23:07:22
Jim Chuong
And I started my first year, I mean, like 20 grand. It was terrible. But as the Internet picked up and all these businesses started flooding the parent company and he was feeding us as soon as I became 60 just back in the nineties, that’s equivalent to like a good sum today. And, you know, I was like 25 or something like that.

00:23:07:24 – 00:23:27:21
Jim Chuong
And the business you’re rolling in and all of these companies, big names too, that you would know, like big banks, huge banks, big companies, insurance companies in the states, they all came and because it was such a good deal, we were at $0.65 to the dollar. All these American companies were like, Wow, we’re getting cheap tech labor and we’re getting what we need.

00:23:27:21 – 00:23:49:18
Jim Chuong
Bill We did that until basically they merged with us, gave us a ton of stock, like a ton of stock. And then we kept doing that. We went from four people, which is me and my three buddies to 400 people in aggregate. So 400 people downtown Toronto working away. I was working night and day like it was too much work.

00:23:49:18 – 00:24:07:07
Jim Chuong
I was sleeping under my desk. We would play video games at night, stay over, keep working. And we did that for over half a decade. And then when the bottom fell out, the tech rally and the dot com crash. Yeah, all my shares went to zero. And then I had decided to go to corporate after a two year break.

00:24:07:09 – 00:24:09:17
Kyle Pearce
Got it. That’s wild, wild ride.

00:24:09:17 – 00:24:31:22
Jon Orr
It is a wild ride. And I think our listeners right now are business owners. Entrepreneurs have that same spirit to kind of like, let’s get started and where do I go from here? But I mean, if we’re thinking about those people who are either starting their business or maybe they are still kind of in the corporate space because that’s where you went to is I think, a big question that I think you’ve already solved.

00:24:31:22 – 00:24:54:16
Jon Orr
And this is what I want to get your opinion on, is that these folks are looking to go all went. What is enough? When do I know I can pivot to being more passive in how much is that a right amount? And what are the things I need to look for or prepare for to get there? So for example, you’re on record saying, I retired at 40 and you’re now the lazy Canadian investor.

00:24:54:18 – 00:25:11:05
Jon Orr
So let’s say we’re running our business or let’s say I’m still stuck in the corporate world. Like, how much do you feel like is the right amount for us to get to that space where it’s like, I’m now buying my time freedom? Because I think that’s what we’re all after right? We’re saying we’re working, but really we’re working to generate money to have time, freedom.

00:25:11:10 – 00:25:29:22
Jon Orr
And that’s really what we buy when we’re trying to go into the business space. Like you talked about, the four quadrants in the right side of that quadrant is all about trying to move towards that time freedom in a way. So if I’m going to retire, if I want to move towards retirement, you’ve done it. So give us your insight on what’s the right number, because I know that’s hard because everyone’s different.

00:25:29:22 – 00:25:31:15
Jon Orr
But I mean, what are the things we should look for?

00:25:31:17 – 00:25:49:17
Jim Chuong
That’s a fantastic question, John. So the short answer is there’s only two ways to do it. And it needs one key piece of information that which is why everything’s different is how much you spend, Right, Right, right. It’s going to be different for someone who spends 50,000 a year versus a household that spends 100,000 versus a household who spends 150,000.

00:25:49:17 – 00:26:16:17
Jim Chuong
Right. So whatever your household expenses are. Right. That’s number one. Number two, the only way to do it is if you have a passive cash flow source, either dividends or, in my case, U.S. financial real estate, or you’re doing Warren Buffett sell off method where you are liquidating a certain sized portfolio. And that liquidation percentage covers those expenses we just talked about.

00:26:16:23 – 00:26:40:12
Jim Chuong
And so those are the only two ways to do it. It’s like a cash flow or a sell off method that Warren Buffett talks about. Now, in terms of cash flow, it’s very easy to figure out if you have passive cash flow in rental real estate of $101,000 and you only spend $100,000, then that is pretty much b greater than A, you can technically cover all your expenses.

00:26:40:14 – 00:27:01:21
Jim Chuong
The liquidation method is a bit different and it goes back to that 4% rule, which is only good for 30 years. So the 4% rule says a certain amount of money. If you withdraw 4% in the first year and then withdraw in subsequent years, that amount increased by the inflation rate. You should be able to make that money last for 30 years.

00:27:01:21 – 00:27:21:21
Jim Chuong
So if you are in your fifties or sixties, that would be appropriate for that time frame to take you to like 80 or 90, say for example. But if you’re younger, that rule might not work for you. So you might have to pad out a bit more. So let’s say you spend only I don’t know if you’re like, my dad was almost 90.

00:27:21:21 – 00:27:44:01
Jim Chuong
He spent less than 40 grand a year. That would be appropriate for him because $1,000,000 portfolio would be enough for him even back when he was 75 or 82 to take him to 110 or whatever, because the 4% would be 40 more than he spends, and then he would go from there. But if you wanted to go earlier, you probably would have to pad that a bit more.

00:27:44:04 – 00:28:10:23
Jim Chuong
I don’t know the exact calculation, but it wouldn’t be a million. It might be say two to last for, say, 40 or 50 years. All right. So for myself, I did the cash flow way where I saw the opportunity during the U.S. rental crisis to take the revenue that was created from the rentals to cover everything. And then once I did that, and I already had a portfolio of stocks, so I wasn’t calculating liquidation value or 4% rule, I was like, I already have the cash flow.

00:28:10:24 – 00:28:13:14
Jim Chuong
So that’s covers and that’s how I did it, if that makes sense.

00:28:13:16 – 00:28:33:00
Kyle Pearce
Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think a piece here, although not set explicitly, but I think people can pick up on this is that these ideas are great starting points but it really comes down to your own. I hate saying risk tolerance because it’s not like the traditional risk tolerance is more or less like what’s going to help you sleep at night, right?

00:28:33:00 – 00:28:56:07
Kyle Pearce
So for you, what I’m hearing is that you were probably feeling confident, Hey, I’ve got this stock portfolio. I’m not even going to like think about that. It’s there. And that might maybe in your head of made you feel like, hey, I’ve got a little bit of that security blanket over there. If maybe something goes wrong for whatever reason, and then you use the cash flow method from your real estate in the U.S., which is fantastic for us.

00:28:56:09 – 00:29:34:08
Kyle Pearce
When we were leaving our jobs, it was like we wanted to make sure that we more than doubled our salaries so that we could feel that, hey, what if business doesn’t go well because it was dependent on business, it wasn’t dependent on passive income. So really depends on the scenario is what I’m hearing you say. And I think for us that makes us feel great because we’re definitely of the same beliefs and we’re on that journey to go, okay, how can we find ways that we can get the safety security that we’re after to help us with our sleep at night, but then also be able to have that time freedom, that cash flow, that

00:29:34:08 – 00:30:02:15
Kyle Pearce
access to capital that will allow us to maintain our lifestyle. And then I guess the again, the other piece that hasn’t been specifically mentioned, but I think is really important here is this idea of like, how much are you spending and making sure that I guess the dot, dot, dot or the caveat there is making sure that you don’t allow lifestyle inflation to kind of set in, because I’m sure that that can be hard for people to battle as they maybe see investments growing.

00:30:02:15 – 00:30:19:17
Kyle Pearce
And it’s like if you make a plan, you’ve got to stick to that plan or if you’re going to modify the plan, you’ve kind of got to go all the way back to the beginning and map it out again. Because if you start veering off that path, you might find yourself five, ten, 15 years down the road going, Oh, that didn’t work out so hot.

00:30:19:17 – 00:30:46:23
Kyle Pearce
I’m curious, how do you help yourself? How do you maintain sort of your plan? I’m wondering, you’re very active on social media. Do you feel that the social media presence you have is helpful to keep you maybe accountable to your own plan? Because my wonder would be for the average individual who, let’s say, isn’t out there public like sharing what they’re doing, it might be harder for them to sort of stick to the plan that they had.

00:30:46:23 – 00:31:05:10
Kyle Pearce
Were humans, right? It’s like I was supposed to go to the gym and then they never go to the gym. How do I stick to this financial plan? Is is that why you went to social media or how did you stay on track? And how are you continuing to make sure that you haven’t found yourself sort of veering off that original path that you set out for yourself?

00:31:05:12 – 00:31:22:14
Jim Chuong
That’s a fantastic question, Kyle. So it’s broken up into two parts. They sound like the same question, but it’s actually a component of two answers. Number one, social media was an accident. I didn’t want to go on social media. Social media has been around for years and I only got on Tik Tok. And you can tell Tik Tok is not the oldest platform, right?

00:31:22:14 – 00:31:33:16
Jim Chuong
So Tik Tok is our new platform. I got there by accident because everything was shut down. I couldn’t even go out for dinner. I can’t even go to the park. Actually, it was like all cordoned off. I couldn’t take my kids.

00:31:33:18 – 00:31:34:24
Kyle Pearce
Out of that. Yeah.

00:31:35:01 – 00:31:42:03
Jim Chuong
Yeah. I’m literally stuck at home. Literally, not even figuratively stuck at home. Can’t go anywhere. You pass I.

00:31:42:03 – 00:31:46:18
Kyle Pearce
Being lazier than you wanted to be, right? You’re like, I can’t be this lazy.

00:31:46:20 – 00:32:05:06
Jim Chuong
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I couldn’t go out and then my daughter put me on to this social media platform, and I never got into social media again because it seems like too much work. When I see YouTubers, I don’t see the content, I see all the editing, I see all the stuff behind the scenes that has to be done afterwards.

00:32:05:12 – 00:32:19:14
Jim Chuong
Same thing with podcasting. You guys are doing great work here, but for me I was just like, How am I going to find the gas? How am I going to edit this thing? And how long is that going to take after post-production is nice. I don’t want to do that. I wasn’t a good writer. I hated writing. My grammar was terrible.

00:32:19:14 – 00:32:38:10
Jim Chuong
I did very poorly in English. I was like, Twitter is not good for me or writing a blog. I’m not going to do that. But when my daughter showed me Tik Tok where I could talk like this for ten six arns, no editing and just submit it, I was like, That’s perfect. That is all easy. I could just say like I would buy more.

00:32:38:10 – 00:32:59:20
Jim Chuong
I wouldn’t pay this much more than I for a house and that’s what I would do. 10 seconds, submit that and I could bang off a whole bunch of them. That’s the platform I took and it took off. And now we’re at Millions of views a month. The second thing I learned from what we talked about when I was in school, that then I didn’t understand how people were not motivated to work, right?

00:32:59:21 – 00:33:21:13
Jim Chuong
I didn’t understand it. Then I realized that all success is not based on motivation at all. A lot of actually successful people, when I look at their or listen to them, they never talked about I was motivated or they were using it in a way that didn’t really mean that. They said, I didn’t feel like doing it, but I did it and that was more in line with discipline.

00:33:21:15 – 00:33:48:01
Jim Chuong
So I never tried what I needed to do with whether or not I felt like doing it. Those were separate ideas. So even if I didn’t feel like doing it, if I felt it was necessary, I would do it. So that would be like working out. I don’t always feel like I want to work out, but after this podcast I’m going to go work out because that’s where the discipline comes in and discipline is where success is born from, not motivation.

00:33:48:03 – 00:34:06:17
Jim Chuong
So that is how I sort of combine the two. I was disciplined to get on social media, and social media was an outlet that was lazy enough for me to use and provides a creative outlet for me. I don’t have any. I don’t paint, I don’t write. Like I told you, I don’t like to draw. I don’t do I don’t play an instrument.

00:34:06:20 – 00:34:09:22
Jim Chuong
That’s my creative outlet. Hopefully that makes some sense. It does.

00:34:09:24 – 00:34:28:11
Jon Orr
It does. It does make sense. It does make sense. And I think we all kind of gravitate towards where do we want to dedicate our time, where do we want to make sure that we’re following through on the important things? So, Jim, as we kind of wrap up here, I want to ask you one final question. We try to ask all of our guests on our podcast is about your wealth, secret sauce.

00:34:28:11 – 00:34:50:12
Jon Orr
So our listeners are trying to build their wealth. They’re trying to kind of get that time freedom. They’re trying to minimize some of their tax strategies and retain more money of the they earn their earning through business or through their tea for jobs. But where would you say is a secret sauce tip that you could leave a business owner, an entrepreneur who is on this wealth building journey?

00:34:50:15 – 00:35:10:17
Jim Chuong
That’s a really good question. So I’m more of an investor than entrepreneur, although this latest endeavor with social media has made me more of a I started another company around this one, but I always looked at it in terms of like, Is this worth my time? Am I going to be compensated for this? If I kept doing this ten years from now, where am I likely to end up?

00:35:10:19 – 00:35:32:09
Jim Chuong
So I learned a lot from entrepreneurs by watching them. For example, like the young fellow who sold things before paying for things money in and before money out. I also learned Warren Buffett’s message that he was like, You don’t need to run the business If you can find the business that’s been run well, you can just piggyback off those thousands of people who are working really hard.

00:35:32:12 – 00:35:52:00
Jim Chuong
So I was always like the least effort for the most impact and increasing time for you. You only increased time for you. And if you do it that way because you can work really hard, but if you’re only getting a 1 to 1 leverage, you’re just going to be working harder and harder and harder. Just increase that the numerical 1 to 1 leverage, right?

00:35:52:02 – 00:36:17:10
Jim Chuong
So for example, it’s like writing a book. Most people write a book by doing all the upfront work, research, footnotes, spending two years writing it, then they try and sell it and no one buys it. You don’t want to do it. That way because you’re loading up all the work and you don’t even know at the end. So what you do is and again, when you listen to people who’ve done really well self-publishing, they do it the same way like this business owner does.

00:36:17:12 – 00:36:35:16
Jim Chuong
I create content on social media. I engage my audience with what I want to write. I ask them for suggestions and ideas that they want to see. Then I write what they want, keeps them updated, and then I put out a preorder form and if they buy it, I will write it. If they don’t buy it, I’m not writing anything.

00:36:35:18 – 00:36:49:17
Jim Chuong
So that’s exactly how it is. When it’s investing or business, you want to know that your effort will translate into more than a 1 to 1 proportional push, right? Revenue first, expenses second.

00:36:49:19 – 00:37:06:14
Kyle Pearce
That is an awesome secret sauce piece here. I’ve gained so many ideas. First of all, I want to say we had so many more questions. So I have a funny feeling we’re going to be tapping you on the shoulder at some point in the future to dig a little deeper. But my big takeaway is that I’m getting here from this conversation.

00:37:06:18 – 00:37:25:02
Kyle Pearce
One is around discipline, and I think that’s really important. And you’re using and what I’m kind of learning from this is sort of your definition of lazy really is about figuring out what do you want to do with your time? Because I’m going to be honest and say, most people would look at your social media and say, This guy isn’t lazy, look at all this stuff he’s doing.

00:37:25:02 – 00:37:42:18
Kyle Pearce
But the caveat, though, is it sounds like you enjoy doing it and you’ve analyzed that and you’ve looked and said, Hey, if I put this much effort into it, what am I going to get out of it? And Is that something that I actually want to do? And I really appreciate that by the work that you do. I’ve been on your email list as well.

00:37:42:18 – 00:38:01:09
Kyle Pearce
We’ll have some links for everyone to go learn more about. You see you on social media. And ultimately what I found is that the part I also think is important is that it’s not a one trick pony for you. So what I mean by that is you’re not out there telling everyone you’ve got to do this strategy in order to become successful.

00:38:01:09 – 00:38:26:13
Kyle Pearce
It really comes down to people having to kind of think about it. Who are you? What is it that you’re looking for? Are you more conservative? And do you need to have something that feels more like maybe a base case pension? We help people with that sometimes, right? Where dare I say it? We use a permanent whole life insurance policy to take care of this basic need that they have so that they can sleep better at night and then leverage that to go do some great things.

00:38:26:13 – 00:38:53:13
Kyle Pearce
Maybe it’s buy real estate like we do or do some of these other things. So I really appreciate that about you that you don’t push sort of an agenda as to what it is that people need to invest in or how they need to act. But you are giving them some amazing tips on how they can take greater control of their life, which really means taking control of their time and deciding what they want to spend our very limited time here on this planet doing so.

00:38:53:19 – 00:39:09:16
Kyle Pearce
We so appreciate you for that. It’s been an amazing conversation. I hope that we can continue to get to know each other in the future. But before we wrap it up, tell people where can they find you on social media and maybe on this thing called the Internet?

00:39:09:18 – 00:39:34:15
Jim Chuong
Awesome. Thank you. Also, you can find me on Tik Tok, my handle is at Jim. Jim, last name c h, you O and G while I work and Instagram you can find me. You don’t need the app and just go to Instagram’s icon slash Jim. Sean one word and I’m actually the latest platform I’m trying is X, which I find is easier to do.

00:39:34:20 – 00:39:41:23
Jim Chuong
Again, same handle as Jim. Sean’s easier to do when I’m working out because I’m breathing heavy and videos don’t translate. Right.

00:39:42:00 – 00:39:43:21
Kyle Pearce
Right, right, right, right, right, right.

00:39:43:23 – 00:39:49:06
Jon Orr
Awesome stuff there, Jim. We’ll put that in our show notes page. And once again, thanks so much for joining us and we’ll see you soon.

00:39:49:12 – 00:39:52:10
Jim Chuong
Awesome. Thanks, John. Thanks, guys.

00:39:52:12 – 00:40:18:21
Kyle Pearce
Well, Canadian while Secrets Seekers, hopefully you enjoyed that episode as much as we did that interview with Jim was awesome, and his remarks on the way out, I think are really important. Something I really value personally is just how seemingly simple he leads his life. So he’s very open about this on social media that he has been retired, quote unquote retired, living off of his investments for quite some time.

00:40:19:02 – 00:40:35:20
Kyle Pearce
And that really just allows him to have time freedom. He’s not lavish or at least he doesn’t appear to be so and he doesn’t do a lot of the same things that other people have been told to do. Right. So he doesn’t want to live and work in the corporate world the rest of his life working for someone else.

00:40:35:22 – 00:41:01:15
Kyle Pearce
He also doesn’t want to own a big home in the Toronto area where he’s got all kinds of expenses. So he lives in a much more modest condo and really enjoys the extra sort of time that that gives him that he doesn’t have to cut his lawn, take care of the yard, do any of those things. So ultimately, right there, I think we’ve got a really great example of someone who is really taking control of their life.

00:41:01:17 – 00:41:25:09
Kyle Pearce
They’ve used investing to do so, and now they get to spend the time doing things they enjoy doing, working out, spending time with family, and ultimately just doing the lazy Canadian investor thing to do. So awesome episode here, friends. If you enjoyed it, definitely go follow Jim. He’s on all social media platforms and hey do us a solid.

00:41:25:09 – 00:41:35:15
Kyle Pearce
If you enjoyed the episode leave us a five star rating and review on your favorite podcast platform and share this podcast with someone you think it could help.

00:41:35:21 – 00:41:51:09
Jon Orr
All links and resources and the transcript for this episode we found over at the website containing Wealth Secrets dot com for purchase Episode 64 that you’re going to find gems, links and some other goodies over there. So check out Carnival Secrets dot com for episode six for.

00:41:51:11 – 00:42:25:12
Kyle Pearce
And to those incorporated business owners out there if you’re seeking that time freedom maybe sooner than later with maybe a more predictable path. Reach out to me over at Canadian wealth secrets dot com forward slash discovery and book a short discovery call. We can go through your specific situation and find ways that we can keep more of that corporate dollar in your pocket and even apply some strategies that can help put it in your personal pocket without having to deal with that tax.

00:42:25:14 – 00:42:45:04
Jon Orr
All right. Well, secret seekers, we will see you next day.

00:42:45:06 – 00:43:15:18
Kyle Pearce
Just a reminder, my friends, the content for this episode is for informational purposes only. You should not construe any such information or other material as legal tax, investment, financial or other advice. And as a reminder, John Aura is a mortgage agent with bricks. Mortgage License m23006803 And Kyle Pierce is a licensed life and accident and sickness insurance agent and a corporate wealth management advisor with the pan Corp. team.

00:43:15:18 – 00:43:19:14
Kyle Pearce
And that includes corporate advisors and pan financial.

Canadian Wealth Secrets is an informative podcast that digs into the intricacies of building a robust portfolio, maximizing dividend returns, the nuances of real estate investment, and the complexities of business finance, while offering expert advice on wealth management, navigating capital gains tax, and understanding the role of financial institutions in personal finance.

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